What an honor it was to speak with Jeanne Bliss on the Communications. Transformed. podcast. The customer experience pioneer makes her point through an emotional connection that is easy to relate to - “Would you do that to your mother?” It was such an insightful and inspirational discussion as Jeanne described the characteristics necessary to be truly customer focused. It’s not easy, as she points out, because which leader thinks they are doing a bad job with a customer-centric approach? This episode is packed with fantastic insights like the generational difference, congruent behavior, defining bravery for the customer and the respect delivery machine that will up-level the customer experience discussion in any company.


Bravery is not a word used often when talking about being customer focused. Yet, Jeanne calls it out as a requirement from leaders to create a truly customer-focused company culture. The focus on quarterly results typically drives decision making. When it comes to creating sustainable growth built on a loyal customer base, that may be a mistake.

Business leaders need to take a pragmatic approach to evaluating their current customer experience and go beyond just sales numbers and start thinking about how to make existing customers happy at every stage of the journey. That could mean letting go of internal rules that limit the ability of people ‘on the ground’ to do what they think is best for the customer in front of them. It always means listening: Listening to your team and listening to your customers.

This session is full of good stuff - here is a preview of some of the key points you’ll hear:

  • The respect delivery machine - giving customers the option that makes the most sense for their life, not just for company efficiency
  • Congruent behavior - enabling people to act at work in alignment with actions and behaviors in their personal lives
  • Generational differences - the generations are not very different.
  • Listen - no one sets out to make customers unhappy, but that’s the end result of not paying attention.

In addition to these insights, Jeanne answers some interesting questions such as:

  • Why mid-level managers are essential to implementing a customer-focused strategy
  • Why talking to all customers—not just the poster customers—is essential
  • Why being a Chief Customer Officer requires being creative, empathetic and analytical

Customer experience is the new competitive battleground. Yet, getting it right may be as simple as asking, “Would I do that to my mother?” and being brave enough to make changes if the answer isn’t what it needs to be.

Hope you enjoy the podcast as much as I did. Be sure to check out Jeanne’s new book, Would You Do That to Your Mother? on Amazon.

And remember to join our LinkedIn Group to meet our guests such as Jeanne and other community members. 

For the full transcription of the podcast read below:

Announcer: Say you want to be a customer driven company or earn, as I call it, customer driven growth, you also have to then display behaviors and operating decisions, and cultural decision that exhibit to your people that this is what you mean.

Announcer: You are listening to Communications Transformed, a podcast from 8x8 where we interview the latest thought leaders and innovators who share their insights about the future of enterprise communications. Let's get to the show.

Randy: Welcome to the Communications Transformed podcast from 8x8. I'm your host, Randy Ksar. I'm super excited about today's podcast guest Jeanne Bliss, the customer experience pioneer. A little background on Jeanne. She pioneered the role of the Chief Customer Officer and is the architect of the customer experience movement. Since 1983 she's been a four time Chief Customer Officer, coached 15,000 global executives on how to earn admirable growth by improving lives, delivering more than 2,000 keynotes, written four international bestselling books on customer experience, and co-founded the Customer Experience Professionals Association.

Randy: I've been personally reading and watching her customer experience best practices for quite some time. Her make mom proud standard resonates not only with myself but everyone that I know. What would make your mom proud is a very important question to ask yourself before, during and after you communicating with your employees and customers.

Randy: In today's podcast, Russ Chadinha and I discuss with Jeanne how C suite executives can drive a customer experience, tips for businesses to create a culture of customer success, which KPIs you should focus on and more. So stay tuned to the very end where we do a special edition of Rapid Fire, make mom proud style.

Randy: As always, want to share more with Jeanne and other guests from the show? Join our LinkedIn group at link.8x8.com/ct. That's link.8x8.com/ct. And let's get started with the podcast.

Randy: I am your host, Randy Ksar, and we are live from 8x8 HQ, and with my coworker, Russ. Welcome back to the podcast.

Russ: Hey Randy, thanks for having me.

Randy: You're welcome. And so today we have a great guest with us, the guest is none other than Jeanne Bliss. Jeanne, welcome to the podcast.

Jeanne: Thank you, Russ and Randy. How are you guys?

Randy: We're doing great. Beautiful day in the bay area, can't complain. It's not raining and we're really excited to speak with you.

Jeanne: Oh, thank you.

Randy: Yeah, so we're super jazzed and we originally connected back on LinkedIn back in November, and so this has been a long time coming and we've done a lot of good research on your book, and then as well as the other content you've been producing. So we're excited to jump start here.

Jeanne: Cool. Let's do it.

Randy: All right, so the first thing that we want to talk about, and again, we're talking about customer experience, but more importantly the C suite. So the C suite is where we want to dive into and really understand their mentality, and as well as how can they ... The first question is how can they help drive customer experience in the company? What is it that they can do?

Jeanne: You know, what's interesting is at the end of the day, customer experience is leadership. It's a couple things. It's deciding how you will and will not grow. Some companies I'm working with were going as far as creating, for example, a code of conduct across the journey. For example, if you want to get operational about it, what will we do for customers? What will we do to them? What will we do for employees? What won't we do to them?

Jeanne: And what happens is most C suites don't unite to make these hard decisions. So decisions are made separately in very well intended ways, but the leaders don't unite. And also the other thing that's really important is modeling behavior. If you say you want to be a customer driven company, or earn, as I call it, customer driven growth, you also have to then display behaviors, and operating decisions, and cultural decisions that exhibit to your people that this is what you mean.

Jeanne: You can't say we want to be customer focused, but then for example, send your sales people out on so many calls to customers, there's no way that they can truly be that trusted advisor that you're saying they have to be.

Russ: Jeanne, we're quarterly focused in most of these companies. So how are you seeing these leaders balance that quarterly shareholder growth objective and this customer driven growth?

Jeanne: Really, really good question. I mean, you're right, we're quarterly inclined. One of the things that I've been doing with my clients is to help them to understand that the big game, the long game is around elevating the asset of the customer base. If you're just looking at are you lifting a survey score or how many widgets or products are you selling, you're not looking at the long game of did you increase not only the new customers coming in, because that's your sales number.

Jeanne: You've got to look at the volume and value, but then subtract from that in the same quarter or month or year, how many customers you lost in volume and value. And when we start making this shift, and this is not just a dashboard shift, it's really a fundamental, behavioral, and also it is a shift in attitude of what we're in business for is to grow that asset. So that helps leaders to recognize that you're not going to necessarily grow that asset quarter by quarter, but it's earned through the over time compilation of your behaviors, your actions, and your attitude.

Russ: Jeanne, that's a great point about attitude. Do you see a difference between generations, newer leaders adopting this easier? Or is there any characteristic?

Jeanne: What's interesting is it's less ... Couple things. What we're seeing inside of business, and I'm sure everybody is seeing, there's so many articles written about it, is that values based companies, companies that grow from not only values but what I call congruent behavior, are we enabling people to act at work, congruent with actions and behavior is congruent to how we'd act in our personal lives.

Jeanne: We're finding, and we know and I'm sure you've seen, you're part of this group of people who gravitate to companies that behave in that manner. In terms of leaders enabling that kind of behavior, there may be some of that around the age, but what it really is, is about around organizational and leadership maturity. Not maturity as how old, but how long has the company been in business and how long have they been able to mature their operating actions to live to this core level of values? Because it's in the beginning you're going to be swayed against behaving like this. It's really leadership bravery, but if you've been doing this for a while and then you've seen the result of it, it's easier to stick to your guns.

Randy: So one of the things that we're definitely strong proponents of is a very transparent and autonomous work culture here at 8x8. We have a great program called Fast Start that really gets people onboarded, gets direct access to executives, and just start collaborating with people across different divisions. Now, the one thing that I think would be interesting to know from your standpoint is from a culture standpoint is what are some tips for businesses to create that customer focused culture? Especially from the C-suite. Or is it from kind of top or from bottom up?

Jeanne: I think it's from the top and by the way, from the middle. What's ironic is that a lot of the rules that pen people in and end up creating, to a certain degree, some of the frustration that workers or team members feel is the middle of the organization in a very well intended way, creating rules or fence posts around their ability to achieve their KPIs.

Jeanne: So leaders have to enable people to A, change what the KPIs are. For example, a lot of KPIs, key performance indicators inside of organizations are about what we want to get from customers or what we want to execute against our operational tactics. Versus having them be customers goals, or achievement of things. So again, that's why this is an attitude shift. The second piece has ... And so once you change that, you're going to also shift the fence posts.

Jeanne: When you interact with companies and you interact with a policy cop, it's because somebody has put a set of rules in place that doesn't let the front line make decisions on their own because we haven't trusted them with customer lifetime value or proactively given them the opportunity to have five options, they can decide which is the right one based on the customer in front of them. So that's number one. The KPI's largely built in the middle of the organization to protect their stake in meeting their KPIs. Does that make sense?

Randy: Totally does. It does.

Jeanne: The other one is leadership bravery, which is being willing to recognize that what got you here isn't what's going to take you further. And taking it to an even more extreme level, one of the first things we do. There's two big things we do often, because you also have to say to the organization symbolically, we mean it and here's how we mean it, here's what we're going to do about it.

Jeanne: Number one, the customers is asset work, which I just talked about. Do the math, unite the organization. The other fast thing that we often do is, has been in almost all of my books is a kill a stupid rule movement. What that means is being brave enough as leaders to ask your employees. And I like doing it by stage of the journey so that it's not about benefits or things that don't connect to the customer experience.

Jeanne: By stage of the journey, what are the rules that are getting in your way of delivering value and what are the rules that constantly make customers nuts that you always have to apologize for or do work around? If you're willing and brave enough to ask about them, and then willing and brave enough to get rid of some of them and celebrate the people who identify them, you will make traction.

Russ: Jeanne, you mentioned bravery. How often do you walk into a situation where the leadership thinks they're being brave and they're not even close?

Jeanne: It's interesting, here's the thing, and this is the other reason why I talk about it in this newest book of mine, Would You Do That to Your Mother? No leadership team or organization feels they're not doing a good job or believes that they don't ... Everybody believes they want to take care of customers.

Jeanne: What happens is everybody has a different version of score. And so to your point, every leader comes in feeling they're brave, but we're so disconnected on what bravery for the customer means, that because our view is often internal. And so to your point, we think we're being brave, but what we're doing in fact is perpetuating the let's get our own stuff done.

Russ: Is there something that you do that you found that shocks the system enough, causes them to change behavior?

Jeanne: One of the things, there's a couple of things I do when we get together with leadership teams initially. The first thing of course, I'm a broken record on this, is that I get together the, I call them the Os. The CFO, the CMO, the CTO or the CCO, all of the people who really have their hands, and the sales people [inaudible 00:12:18] sales guy who sells, a woman who runs sales, and get them to build their first version of incoming customers, outgoing customers from a one company standpoint to see, did this asset grow or shrink?

Jeanne: Because again, we're giving ourselves a false positive. We're giving ourselves a false positive when we're only tracking sales or retention rates because we're not looking at the whole numbers or volumes of humans walking away. That's number one. Does that make sense?

Russ: It does.

Jeanne: The second thing is, we first have to then define the stages or the missions. I've lately been calling them customer missions instead of stages because customers don't go through our journey in a linear way. They have missions that they continue, they go back, they go forth, but we're not organizing our business around the missions.

Jeanne: But first of all, know what those missions are and define them the way the customer would. The next thing we do is then we'll bring in a bunch of customers to talk about how they're trying to achieve each of the missions, given the constraints and how our operating behaviors in silos have made it harder or easier for them to achieve the mission.

Jeanne: Then we let the customers go, we say thank you very much. Then we have the leaders read verbatims from surveys as well, and we put a little under each of these missions are stages, we put a little slider and it's plus at the far right, meaning 100% of the time we're always reliable regardless of who the customers interacting with, what product, what channel, et cetera. The middle is, it's clunky and it's sometimes we'll take a hero to solve it and the far left is, this is just something that's constantly difficult and painful, and very rarely reliable.

Jeanne: We have the customer ... Actually, before the customer goes, we have the customer rate those stages. Or what you can do is first have the leaders rate the stages. And often again, we give ourselves a higher rating than we think because we're not looking at it from what the customer's looking at, is from the one company standpoint. Are you reliable?

Jeanne: What we're looking at is from our silo, how good of a job are we doing? That's not what the customer cares about. We've got to check our silo and our ego at the door. And those two things of getting a one company view of the customer asset growth or loss, and a one company view of the current state and one version of the truth from the customer's point of view on how we're doing well today, that gives us permission to do the work.

Russ: That sounds like a great way to shift mindsets. How often do you get the denial? Jeanne, you set me up, those customers really aren't that unhappy.

Jeanne: I've never gotten that. Again, and here's the other thing. Here's the other thing that happens. You've got to make sure ... There's a couple of things that happen. A lot of times people when you do this, they'll want to only have the leaders who are on your sounding boards or you know, whatever, and we'll bring in some of those super happy campers who are always a part of the advisory group or whatever.

Jeanne: Well, guess what? They have things to say. And then you bring in other mixtures of customers. If you make it safe customers, who will say, and we just did a bunch of these last week for a client, "We love you, but ..." But, but, but, but, but, but. That's the other thing that I do, for example, when we've got a client who wants to do net promoter, great, I'm a fan of it if they do the whole system in the follow-up.

Jeanne: But instead of asking as a second question, why did you give us a 10? I want to ask, tell us one thing you'd like us to improve. What that does is says to your leadership team in the organization, "Look, even your promoters want stuff fixed." 'Cause when we rest on our laurels, we're just resting on our laurels.

Randy: Let's take a quick break and learn more about 8x8.

Announcer: 8x8's Communication Solutions help businesses transform their customer and employee experience with one system of engagement for cloud voice, video, collaboration and contact center. And one system of intelligence on one cloud communications platform, businesses can now communicate faster and smarter to exceed the speed of customer expectations. For additional information, visit www.8x8.com, or follow 8x8 on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook.

Randy: Now let's get back to the show.

Randy: So one of the things that when I was kinda researching some questions for you, I ran into something that Tim Brown, the CEO of Ideo says, in terms of what design thinking is. This is what he says, "Design thinking is a human centered approach to innovation that draws from the designer's toolkit to integrate the needs of people, the possibilities of technology and the requirements for business success." So my question to you is, if you were to build a customer experience toolkit, what would be included in it?

Jeanne: So ethnography. Also, what's interesting is a lot of my clients, the ones that are really taking it to the next level, for example, my friends at St. Jude. And in fact, I posted a video on LinkedIn. They have hired anthropologists. Listen to this, here's why. If you are one of those brands, like you said, where you're doing well and your leadership team is getting nothing but kudos, what you've got is such a halo effect that your customers, because of the way you ask the questions, don't give you feedback.

Jeanne: For St. Jude, for example, who wouldn't love St. Jude? I mean their mission based. So if you're mission based, you're going to get feedback based on your mission, not necessarily always on your performance. And so we need to go deeper, and that's why they're using anthropology and other observing approaches to understanding what's important to customers.

Jeanne: So definitely anthropology, and I would use slabs, where you put your customer through, try to watch them do it. And the whole thing that I call fearless listening where ... And I do this on a regular basis, when we do our listening sessions with customers, we ... No mirrors, we seat leaders at the table with the customers as the customers are talking. Because you can present survey results or data 100 times, but until people hear the words of the customer in their ear, it doesn't feel human. It's data, spreadsheets and red, yellow, and green dots. So along with the toolkit for redesigning, you need to have a toolkit for shifting the version of the truth or the perception of the starting point, or the middle point, or where you are now.

Russ: Gee, that's such a great and fabulous point about the humanistic aspect of it. But how do you see companies try to balance this idea of, I'm going to AI, I'm going chat bots, but still be able to manage the customer experience would be human about it.

Jeanne: Well, here's the thing, here's I've started calling and I dub this for the new book, the mom book, and I'm going to be talking a lot more about it, I call it a respect delivery machine. Let's say you're going to chats or bots or whatever, are those the channels and the ways that your customer chooses to communicate with you?

Jeanne: Some will and some won't. If you're building a respect delivery machine, you've got to make sure, for two things. That you're giving the customer the option that makes the most sense for their life, not just for you being efficient. Because if you're not, you're cutting the heart and the differentiation out of it. Does that makes sense?

Russ: Absolutely.

Jeanne: So look at, for example, Sephora does a great job. They give customers so many different options. They're using AI and chat and bot and all those other things, but they're blending it with other ways where the customer can actually insert themselves into it, but give the customer also the way to opt in and all the opportunities. The other thing though, is here's the deal.

Jeanne: At some point in time, especially if you have a complex situation or a bill that's complex or whatever, at some point in time every company is going to have customers who want to act out of all the self serve and talk to a human. So what should be happening now is not getting rid of the human capacity or the humans to talk to your customers, but rather raising the water level of those you retain and arm with knowledge, information and trust. Because if we're used to being self service, you had better have somebody who can help us out of the jam we're in when we're choosing to walk away with what we usually do.

Randy: Outstanding. Now when we think about it, we have a perspective from the US, Canada. Are you seeing the same kind of definition of customer experience and the requirements in other regions of the world?

Jeanne: I think what we're seeing is other regions adapting it little by little. I would say that the US in many ways has has been leading our ... With diligence, of what we're doing. However, the other countries are also able to now observe, and again, this isn't a negative thing, but I think, and again, the reason why I wrote the mom book and in my messaging you're going to find is shifting, is we're focusing ... We're turning customer experience into mechanics, not the meaning. We're focusing way too much on the mechanics versus the meaning, which is about improving lives.

Jeanne: And so my words to the wise for other countries and markets watching what's happening is that this is first and foremost leadership, how leaders choose to grow and being really deliberate about what you won't do. And only then can you and should you begin to use the tools and the mechanics to make that come true. But what what we're doing is leaders are like, "Oh, we got to care about customer experience because it's the thing. Okay, Joe, you're in charge of it. Go do some stuff and report back to us." The order is in the wrong order. That make sense?

Randy: Yeah, it does. So, yeah, I think those that are overseas that are listening to this podcast, and we do have folks that are doing that, I think they'll definitely take that and definitely use it for their business. So one of the things, right.

Jeanne: And it's hard. It's hard. If I could jump in just for one second, I'm sorry about that, it is very hard because often we're given the action. Here's what's weird about customer experience work, is it's not like any other work. Okay, you're in charge of customer experience, but customer experience to be successful includes the entire underbelly of the organization.

Jeanne: Uniting people, change management, how they were hired, what drives their motivation. And that's where the disconnect occurs, if you don't have a seasoned leader doing this work and recognizing that a big part of their role is uniting the leadership team, that's when it gets really tactical really fast and we lose the [inaudible 00:24:23] because you have to check in and report and show progress. And leaders are measuring the success in customer experience by volume of activity, not necessarily shift in attitude and how we do the work of the business.

Randy: Yeah. I mean, similar to when I first started in doing, for instance, social, that was a huge philosophy shift in how people are actually engaging with people across different channels other than their own. People just didn't get it. They didn't know that that was actually happening. So I think from a customer experience standpoint, that was definitely key back in the days, and that was back in '05-ish, '06-ish, when I first started on that end.

Jeanne: Exactly.

Randy: So it's interesting to see how, I mean, it still is an issue. It still is a hard problem, but that these consensus that it needs someone that's ... This is probably a good question. So if it's not the executive, who ... And the next questions are kind of around career oriented stuff, but who is the type of person that would do the change management that is brave enough to kind of take a step forward and be that, [inaudible 00:25:38] say a messenger because, taking the comments from the customers, but who is that type of person that would actually be able to do that? Are there skills that they need to learn? Or is this someone that's inherently that type of person?

Jeanne: Well, that's a really great question. That's why often the most successful chief customer officers or leaders, they don't have to have that title. The person, I call it being the human [inaudible 00:26:01]. For a period of time [inaudible 00:26:03]. For a period of time in the organization's history, to bring people together to think and work differently in a united way, it takes a mature leader. It takes someone who's successfully run an operation because they've proven that they've got the chops to do it.

Jeanne: It takes a collaborative leader. It takes someone who's willing to check their ego at the door because the work is more about giving people the past and shining the light on them. Then shining the light on yourself and what you've accomplished. And that's why this is an uncommon job. And so what typically happens for me when I work with organizations is, you give me the person with those characteristics and I can coach them into the activities of the role. But if I don't have a mature leader, it's very difficult in some cases to ... I can coach them on the tactics, but the outcome isn't going to be the same.

Randy: Yeah, no, you have a hard job ... Russ, you had a question?

Russ: Jeanne, are you seeing business schools start to adopt this kind of curriculum? This ideas teach the young people coming up?

Jeanne: Some are, but not as much as you'd think. It's still interesting to me, I do think we're seeing a walk away from the way that we used to talk about marketing, certainly. Not as much as you'd hope, right? I mean it's because this ... I think that the challenge in business school or any curriculum is that we've silo-tized the courses or the course of study. This is horizontal by nature. Perhaps it's organizational design, it's change management, it's human centered design, it's anthropology and customer listening, it's sociology.

Jeanne: I would love to actually, if there's any universities out there, let me know, I would be happy to partner with you to help to build what that curriculum or even the path should look like, because you're going to have to break some things. It's such a hybrid to create a path. For example, what would the entry curriculum be? I don't know, it's kind of exciting to think about it.

Randy: It is. I mean, it definitely wouldn't be technical in nature, it'd be more about communications. It would be more about, I mean, the anthropology probably would be an interesting one, just understanding different cultures and people's backgrounds and how they do their jobs.

Jeanne: Right, but if you're an anthropologist, and more of a radiologist version of an anthropologist in terms of your human biology, versus a collaborative anthropologist, you're going to get two different outcomes too, right?

Randy: Yeah, that's true.

Jeanne: It's so interesting, I'm kind of excited. Oh, maybe this is my next thing. Kind of excited about this.

Russ: Think about this, you have your class of cognitive science of emotion for marketing, and then the next class is all about the data science of marketing. They'd be bipolar when they come out.

Jeanne: Well, I've always said, "This a right brain, left brain job." It is completely right brain, left brain. You have to be able to be an empathetic storyteller, creative, and then analytical enough to make it stick and be about growing the business. And you're right. It's interesting, I kind of go back to this, if I could tell a personal story, a million years ago when I was young, way back when I think I was interviewing, I think it was for the Gap or somebody I can't remember, but they did a really good job of testing. And I remember getting a call from the headhunter or whatever saying they really liked you but they couldn't figure out where to place you because you scored as good in marketing as you did in sales.

Russ: What was the outcome?

Jeanne: No job.

Randy: Yeah, they just couldn't figure it out, huh?

Jeanne: No, I didn't ... That was a square peg.

Randy: Their loss, their loss.

Jeanne: No, no, hey, hey. But it's not about me really, it's just more of an example of in general in the world and what I've seen because I have my podcast, The Chief Customer Officer Human Duct Tape Show, and I've interviewed almost 200 Chief Customer Officers. The best ones have these right brain brain, left brain capabilities. And then the best ones are these mature ... You gotta be willing to lose your job over doing this work, by the way.

Randy: Interesting, all right.

Jeanne: Not in a bad way, but you've got to be knowing ... What?

Randy: Yeah. It's a risk, I mean, your priorities is the customer, right? So [crosstalk 00:30:55]-

Jeanne: Well, and you've gotta be willing to ... It's not about being abrasive. And lose your job, I mean, that was extreme. You've just got to be fearless. You've gotta be fearless in your, how you bring people together and that you're steering, right? You're steering and you're making people uncomfortable potentially.

Randy: All right, we're going to get onto the rapid fire section of the podcast. So in this edition of the rapid fire, this is the Make Mom Proud rapid fire edition. So to start off, we'll do way you originally study in college? Originally.'Cause I know I've changed five or six majors when I was in college, but [crosstalk 00:31:38]-

Jeanne: No, apparel design and retail marketing, and that's what I stuck with.

Randy: Oh, okay. Great, awesome. Next question, what was the first moment where you said, "Oh my, I'm exactly like my mom."

Jeanne: When I've been looking in the mirror lately, cause I'm older.

Randy: Okay. And favorite recipe from your mom that you've cooked?

Jeanne: From my grandmother, actually, I make a mean steamed artichoke with olive oil, garlic cheese and breadcrumbs. Oh my God, you want to die. Its' last meal food.

Randy: Wow.

Jeanne: Yes, don't you want it?

Randy: I will take that.

Russ: Okay if you sign me up?

Randy: All right. And then these are, the first thing that comes to your mind in terms of customer experience in these industries. So I'm going to give you an industry, and then you tell me the first thing that comes to mind with customer experience.

Jeanne: Oh, I'm so bad at this. Okay.

Randy: This will be the jeopardy 1,000 section. So the first one, healthcare.

Jeanne: Cleveland clinic and Mayo Clinic, that's two.

Randy: Okay. Retail.

Jeanne: Probably Zappos.

Randy: Yeah, I love those guys. Tony's doing great.

Jeanne: [crosstalk 00:32:57]

Randy: Manufacturing.

Jeanne: Gosh, I'd have to throw it to one of my clients. They are the world's largest manufacturer of hardhats.

Randy: Okay. Airlines.

Jeanne: Alaska and Southwest.

Randy: Love 'em both. And the last one, grocery stores.

Jeanne: Trader Joe's, and Wegmans.

Randy: Awesome. Yeah, no, a big fan of Trader Joe's. Very kind of down to Earth, but really human and wanna help you out. Very different than your normal grocery store.

Jeanne: Three times the squares of the sales per square foot of all other common grocery stores, by the way. Humanity paid, ching ching.

Randy: It's amazing. All right, so the last thing that I want to make sure that people, if they want to contact you and what's the best way to do that. So do you want to share, I know you mentioned a podcast and then your website, but feel free to ... You have the airwaves.

Jeanne: Oh, great.

Randy: [inaudible 00:33:56].

Jeanne: Thank you. So, my name is spelled Jeanne, J-E-A-N-N-E, Bliss, bliss like happiness. So Twitter, it's just @JeanneBliss. My podcast, it comes on my website. So if you go to my website, customerbliss.com, I married a guy named Bliss. When I'm on stage, I say went all over match.com to do that. But it was just funny good luck. And my books are on Amazon. Would You Do That to Your Mother on Amazon, and 800-CE-READ anywhere fine books are sold.

Randy: Awesome. Definitely, we highly encourage everyone to pick those up. And we'll put all the links in the show notes and the blog posts on the 8x8 website.

Jeanne: Great.

Randy: So, kinda closing notes. Russ, any other closing notes on your end?

Russ: None for me, Jeanne. It's been an absolute pleasure and I do recommend all those books. I'm an owner of all four, and I can't live without 'em.

Jeanne: Well, thank you. You guys are great.

Randy: Thank you. All right, well thanks for joining us, Jeanne, and we thank you for your time and we will hear from everybody on the next Communication Transform podcast. Make sure to go to your favorite podcast directory or player, whether it's Apple podcasts or Google music, and write a review. It will help us on how we schedule our next guest and make sure that we surface all of Jeanne's amazing work. So definitely write a review on your favorite podcast player. Thanks again and have a wonderful day.

Announcer: You've been listening to Communications Transformed. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening, until next time.